Sorry for my delayed response. I just tried this, adding even one more /say and two /echo commands to the script and it always worked correctly. So I'm really not sure where is the problem...
Indeed, CG's continuous success is possible because Dave takes extreme care of his servers, adjusting endlessly things that do not work quite well. That would also have to happen with this proposed multi-team meeting ground/server.
OK, I'm glad we're back on track, at least what concerns the topic here! 
I see there is some real interest in trying out this cooperation project, at least what concerns the for now somewhat vague ideas.
Two car categories, changed by rotations? Why not! If it will attract you experienced people from various teams and your mates, what else can we ask? But we should be ready for changes (like extending the available categories) in case things go stale and get a downward trend (that is if we ever get it somewhere up).
I see there is some real interest in trying out this cooperation project, at least what concerns the for now somewhat vague ideas.Two car categories, changed by rotations? Why not! If it will attract you experienced people from various teams and your mates, what else can we ask? But we should be ready for changes (like extending the available categories) in case things go stale and get a downward trend (that is if we ever get it somewhere up).
OK, good to hear! 
Most people I talk to would like to have a single category server. The big problem with this is approach is that the average LFS driver who comes to race once a week or even less does not like it. He likes alternatives. And to have a successful single-class server, we would have to cooperate real close, preferring that server over our own servers with the hope that even the average drivers will soon see the virtues of true racing. Server success depends on average drivers. And when they have limited choices and see the aliens they can never beat, they just leave. More categories give options. They can choose and be in a category where they have a chance for win. Also using GTRs and allowing all to participate is impossible.
PS1: Concerning available cars, there are always options to make it clear. One is to use quite simple categorization, where safety rating level actually tells you the highest class you can use - maybe GTL Qualified and GT2 Qualified. Other option is to add Airio feature that would tell you the cars to use when it spectates you for insufficient something...
PS2: The SR system works reasonably well, in fact much better than I hoped when implementing it. You need to see that Airio has relatively limited set of data to base its decisions on. But again, any reasonable additions and improvements are possible, such as making it track-length dependant, which is a very good idea and easily implementable as well.
Most people I talk to would like to have a single category server. The big problem with this is approach is that the average LFS driver who comes to race once a week or even less does not like it. He likes alternatives. And to have a successful single-class server, we would have to cooperate real close, preferring that server over our own servers with the hope that even the average drivers will soon see the virtues of true racing. Server success depends on average drivers. And when they have limited choices and see the aliens they can never beat, they just leave. More categories give options. They can choose and be in a category where they have a chance for win. Also using GTRs and allowing all to participate is impossible.
PS1: Concerning available cars, there are always options to make it clear. One is to use quite simple categorization, where safety rating level actually tells you the highest class you can use - maybe GTL Qualified and GT2 Qualified. Other option is to add Airio feature that would tell you the cars to use when it spectates you for insufficient something...
PS2: The SR system works reasonably well, in fact much better than I hoped when implementing it. You need to see that Airio has relatively limited set of data to base its decisions on. But again, any reasonable additions and improvements are possible, such as making it track-length dependant, which is a very good idea and easily implementable as well.
Last edited by EQ Worry, .
First, please lets stick to the point, this all is about possible one server managed and used cooperatively by several teams with the hope to create something more acceptable for hardcore drivers while keeping the interest of the general LFS public. Using server farms and "globalizing" some Airio data/stats is something completely else.
The rank... Of course you can have GT2s, if admins choose to configure Airio that way. One of my ideas for this proposed multi-team server is to make cars available purely on safety rating, nothing else. And your initial rating would be set very high, if you have years of LFS experience. Then you may still improve it, but also lose it of course. If the original idea you mention is that one server, I still hope it will be the primary topic of this thread, while there may be other threads about the iRacing options.
The rank... Of course you can have GT2s, if admins choose to configure Airio that way. One of my ideas for this proposed multi-team server is to make cars available purely on safety rating, nothing else. And your initial rating would be set very high, if you have years of LFS experience. Then you may still improve it, but also lose it of course. If the original idea you mention is that one server, I still hope it will be the primary topic of this thread, while there may be other threads about the iRacing options.
Thanks again to everyone showing interest!
@ Turkey, I guess it is the idea of inter-server racing we talked about some time ago? Racing more or less equally at different team servers, bound by common AIRW racing statistics. I'm still processing the idea, I did not have much time recently to convert it into something tangible, but I believe the basic framework is possible to have. However, this attempt here is something else.
@ Turkey, I guess it is the idea of inter-server racing we talked about some time ago? Racing more or less equally at different team servers, bound by common AIRW racing statistics. I'm still processing the idea, I did not have much time recently to convert it into something tangible, but I believe the basic framework is possible to have. However, this attempt here is something else.
Thx!
I would hope it would not be another one! I'm afraid there need to be some cars/categories to choose from, but not too wide range. Something acceptable to hardcore drivers as well as to general public looking for some fun racing from time to time. I was proposing 5 classes, and I think having 3 is really a bit too low. But, sure, I might be wrong. Having two (or more) servers seems like a future option to me, if we ever can get one running. As far as I remember, even the higher-level CTRA servers were not used much, and that was in better LFS times, while the entry level servers ran well.
Thank you people for all the positive replies! I'm really getting excited now. Thanks also to Genuine Racing for kindly providing a server already, wow! 
I believe there are two main areas that would need close attention to have any chance to make this inter-team LFS racing revival work.
1) Administration of the server.
2) Configuration of the server.
Concerning point 1), to make it really an inter-team matter, I believe we should try to have admins from every participating team. That way the teams could feel at home at the server, not subject to whims of some unknown people. But proper admining is complicated work, many do not realize this. I have a prolonged experience in this field and I believe calmness and thinking twice is the key. Is there a dispute? Try to wind it down, never escalate matters. try to find a compromise acceptable for both parties. Are you angry? Try to calm down before taking any action, try to see the matter from the other perspective. Do you feel a ban is necessary? Consider that bans should primarily teach people to behave better next time. They can server that purpose, if they are short from the beginning. Save long bans only for repeated bad behavior.
Can we have admins from all around LFS able to see this, understand it, and most importantly apply the outlined principles? As I said already, I've met many admins from different teams, vast majority of them very kind and nice people with a common interest. Surely, there can be disputes, but I do hope everything can be solved by discussion. I believe the participating teams are full of sufficiently experienced people that are never crashing anyone on purpose. And if we all know that, we will know all the collisions are just racing accidents. I'm always an optimist (except among other optimists), I believe we can all realize this and thus eliminate large area of friction. We could have a discussion thread solving the troubles, but very often problems never arise if reasonable approach is taken right from the start. Choosing the right words to point to an issue is again the key.
Concerning point 2), I'm sure there will be lots and lots of ideas. I already received many, both here, via PMs and by MSN. Many of them are bright and nice, but I'm afraid also unworkable in a project that is aimed to catch public interest. Because without the general LFS public it is not possible to run reasonably popular server. And there's no point in having a not-really-so-much-used server. That's where another compromise comes in. We may try to keep some reasonable level of racing, but I think we cannot hope to make people like 30 minute races started by qualification.
I'm afraid we'll have to stick with something proven, at least for a start. Like max 10 minute races and rotated tracks. A good option may be to start new track with short qualification to allow for adaptation, but then follow with 6 or max 8 short races on that track. Track voting is a good option as well, I think, I would gladly extend the existing system so that it is not possible (or rather not so easy) to vote constantly for the same tracks.
My initial proposal included 7 cars in 5 categories. I would say that is a good balance between variability and limitations. People often say that GTI (or whatever we call XFG+XRG) and GTR cars cannot race together. I think the speed difference is so high, that overtaking is not a problem, which cannot be said about other categories racing together. Some say you can have the best races in XFG and XRG and I agree. Of course we could agree on excluding these slow cars, going only for GTL (aka NGT), GT2 and GTR classes. The upside is less car categories, the downside is more inexperienced people in faster cars and limited choices.
OK, enough for now, I see another suggestion coming in...
Thanks also to Genuine Racing for kindly providing a server already, wow! I believe there are two main areas that would need close attention to have any chance to make this inter-team LFS racing revival work.1) Administration of the server.
2) Configuration of the server.
Concerning point 1), to make it really an inter-team matter, I believe we should try to have admins from every participating team. That way the teams could feel at home at the server, not subject to whims of some unknown people. But proper admining is complicated work, many do not realize this. I have a prolonged experience in this field and I believe calmness and thinking twice is the key. Is there a dispute? Try to wind it down, never escalate matters. try to find a compromise acceptable for both parties. Are you angry? Try to calm down before taking any action, try to see the matter from the other perspective. Do you feel a ban is necessary? Consider that bans should primarily teach people to behave better next time. They can server that purpose, if they are short from the beginning. Save long bans only for repeated bad behavior.
Can we have admins from all around LFS able to see this, understand it, and most importantly apply the outlined principles? As I said already, I've met many admins from different teams, vast majority of them very kind and nice people with a common interest. Surely, there can be disputes, but I do hope everything can be solved by discussion. I believe the participating teams are full of sufficiently experienced people that are never crashing anyone on purpose. And if we all know that, we will know all the collisions are just racing accidents. I'm always an optimist (except among other optimists), I believe we can all realize this and thus eliminate large area of friction. We could have a discussion thread solving the troubles, but very often problems never arise if reasonable approach is taken right from the start. Choosing the right words to point to an issue is again the key.
Concerning point 2), I'm sure there will be lots and lots of ideas. I already received many, both here, via PMs and by MSN. Many of them are bright and nice, but I'm afraid also unworkable in a project that is aimed to catch public interest. Because without the general LFS public it is not possible to run reasonably popular server. And there's no point in having a not-really-so-much-used server. That's where another compromise comes in. We may try to keep some reasonable level of racing, but I think we cannot hope to make people like 30 minute races started by qualification.
I'm afraid we'll have to stick with something proven, at least for a start. Like max 10 minute races and rotated tracks. A good option may be to start new track with short qualification to allow for adaptation, but then follow with 6 or max 8 short races on that track. Track voting is a good option as well, I think, I would gladly extend the existing system so that it is not possible (or rather not so easy) to vote constantly for the same tracks.
My initial proposal included 7 cars in 5 categories. I would say that is a good balance between variability and limitations. People often say that GTI (or whatever we call XFG+XRG) and GTR cars cannot race together. I think the speed difference is so high, that overtaking is not a problem, which cannot be said about other categories racing together. Some say you can have the best races in XFG and XRG and I agree. Of course we could agree on excluding these slow cars, going only for GTL (aka NGT), GT2 and GTR classes. The upside is less car categories, the downside is more inexperienced people in faster cars and limited choices.
OK, enough for now, I see another suggestion coming in...
Thank you, people. The point is not to help me, 
the point would be to create an alternative, maybe a new level of cooperation between teams looking for "some more serious racing," using closer cooperation (and limitations still acceptable to general LFS public). It is still just an idea, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, I claim no originality at all. 
Maybe I'll try to create such a server, to have a beginning, and then we will see if there's any chance to make some progress. We all have our views and it may prove impossible to reach a workable compromise. Especially when you take the volatile public interest into account.
Oh sorry, I did not mean your comment. And thanks for the explanation, I really did not know what CRC was. (Except for Cyclic Redundancy Check, naturally.)
the point would be to create an alternative, maybe a new level of cooperation between teams looking for "some more serious racing," using closer cooperation (and limitations still acceptable to general LFS public). It is still just an idea, and I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, I claim no originality at all. Maybe I'll try to create such a server, to have a beginning, and then we will see if there's any chance to make some progress. We all have our views and it may prove impossible to reach a workable compromise. Especially when you take the volatile public interest into account.Oh sorry, I did not mean your comment.
And thanks for the explanation, I really did not know what CRC was. (Except for Cyclic Redundancy Check, naturally.)
Last edited by EQ Worry, .
Thanks for the reminder! I updated all links in the original announcement now.
I also have to address one other thing here, and that is the removal of all the "clean online lap times", as they were stored in the airio.eu database and presented in the form of various tables as AIRW (Airio World) best lap (BL, for standard cars) and world record (WR, for custom restricted cars) data. It made some people very unhappy, and I am really sorry for that. But a month or two ago it was discovered that some of those times were done under undesired conditions and were practically unbeatable with default Airio config used at other servers. So a correction was necessary, as it is present now in Airio PROS version 2.5.2. Again, I'm sorry for this, I realize some people put quite some effort into these "new global" stats. Hopefully, you are more experienced now and have all the sets ready, so it will not take too much time to renew the stats. Overall, these online stats can never be perfect, but new data will be certainly done under much more alike circumstances and thus comparable.
Let's stick to the main point here please...
Well, I'd say there's nothing especially new about this. There are many servers with various configurations. Problem is of course popularity. Nobody goes to empty servers, at least not regularly. But also if you allow everyone to take GTR cars, it is just awful and server is soon empty and hated by many. On the other hand, if you apply limitations, many people also leave as soon as they realize they cannot use the strongest beasts. It is very hard to find the right balance. Same with track rotations. For many quick rotations are not acceptable, for many others static tracks are also unacceptable. But overall, the questions of the race format, cars, requirements are minor matters. The question is if there can be a server where experienced people from different teams meet and take care of matters together. So far I received four skeptic opinions, one guy willing to help. 
Yes, you were completely right, it was always ignoring 1st lap. I did a quick correction, hopefully it will not cause breakdown of some other functionality. Uhm...
Airio 2.5.2 is released, as you can see from my signature. It (hopefully) solves all reported issues, even quite rare ones. There is no new major functionality, except stricter requirements for the AIRW database as used by the PROS version. Also all the good/clean laps making online PBs were removed, new ones are already gathering. Good luck!
The principal question is if there are teams/admins willing to cooperate on such a project, even if they have to make some compromises, or if there's no interest at all, for various reasons (e.g. such cooperation is not possible, admining the server would simply fail, having anything reasonable is not possible). Specific configuration is a secondary matter for now.
Proposal for a multi-team open GT racing server
Hello people, especially if you're experienced server admins! Let me present here an idea, all constructive comments are most welcome.
In these past years while I took quite an active part in LFS, I've met many people from many teams. And I have to say that in great majority they were extremely nice guys with great interest in good racing. They all had cool ideas, but more often than not, somehow, the projects failed to attract sufficient attention. And, lets face it, popularity is important.
Maybe we could try to concentrate our efforts and focus on one joined project, instead of many separate ones. Surely, there will be different ideas and not everyone can be perfectly happy with the outcome, but if we all make a bit of a compromise, maybe we can get tangible results, improving LFS racing while having more fun.
The idea would be to run one server with configuration acceptable to general LFS public and to the participating admins as well. It will not be a specific team/community server, all interested teams can have some people with admin rights on the server, all can have their word in shaping it. That's why I'd call it a multi-team project. All the nice people I know that are not much active anymore could take active part again in this project, maybe meet another nice people.
To have any chance for success, I think we can't make a hardcore-racing server. Many will not be absolutely happy, but I believe such a server needs rotated tracks and some assortment of interesting cars available to give people options. On the other hand allowing everything is too much, my initial suggestion would be to stick with GT cars only, specifically allow XFG, XRG (GTI), UFR, XFR (GTL) and FZR, FXR, XRR (GTR), plus some usual restricted versions of the cars (GT2, GTJ). Altogether 7 standard cars in maximum 5 categories.
Of course complete freedom for everyone would mean a disaster. I would propose to limit car usage based only on safety rating, nothing else. Many experienced people will be able to use all cars right after 1st connect, when their high initial rating will be set. But they may lose the ability in case the rating drops, while others, initially less experienced, may soon reach even the fastest cars. As simple as it may be.
Certainly, many questions remain. Such as: Why try to create another CG? I hope my initial proposal is obviously different. Much less cars/categories to choose from, still enough options to keep peoples' interest. Also simpler conditions to meet. Maybe no points/ranks/licences at all to revive the spirit of racing. I would supply Airio PROS and could take care of the config. Certainly we can find an unused server, there are so many. All ideas would be welcome.
So, what say you? Will team leaders and team members, so far basically locked to their own servers, often slowly disappearing, be interested in this endeavor? I do realize we may find many obstacles, but I also know many of you are looking for something else than offered by today's LFS. If you still think it is possible, please come forward and share your opinions. Say what you think would be good. Consider also what failed in the past.
Well, this is just an idea, initial proposal (based on what I'd personally love to see), trying to find a compromise between hardcore racing, that is really not very popular, and too open and complicated environments, unacceptable to others. As said, constructive comments are most welcome, especially from experienced server admins that know what works and what does not. Thanks for reading!
In these past years while I took quite an active part in LFS, I've met many people from many teams. And I have to say that in great majority they were extremely nice guys with great interest in good racing. They all had cool ideas, but more often than not, somehow, the projects failed to attract sufficient attention. And, lets face it, popularity is important.
Maybe we could try to concentrate our efforts and focus on one joined project, instead of many separate ones. Surely, there will be different ideas and not everyone can be perfectly happy with the outcome, but if we all make a bit of a compromise, maybe we can get tangible results, improving LFS racing while having more fun.
The idea would be to run one server with configuration acceptable to general LFS public and to the participating admins as well. It will not be a specific team/community server, all interested teams can have some people with admin rights on the server, all can have their word in shaping it. That's why I'd call it a multi-team project. All the nice people I know that are not much active anymore could take active part again in this project, maybe meet another nice people.
To have any chance for success, I think we can't make a hardcore-racing server. Many will not be absolutely happy, but I believe such a server needs rotated tracks and some assortment of interesting cars available to give people options. On the other hand allowing everything is too much, my initial suggestion would be to stick with GT cars only, specifically allow XFG, XRG (GTI), UFR, XFR (GTL) and FZR, FXR, XRR (GTR), plus some usual restricted versions of the cars (GT2, GTJ). Altogether 7 standard cars in maximum 5 categories.
Of course complete freedom for everyone would mean a disaster. I would propose to limit car usage based only on safety rating, nothing else. Many experienced people will be able to use all cars right after 1st connect, when their high initial rating will be set. But they may lose the ability in case the rating drops, while others, initially less experienced, may soon reach even the fastest cars. As simple as it may be.
Certainly, many questions remain. Such as: Why try to create another CG? I hope my initial proposal is obviously different. Much less cars/categories to choose from, still enough options to keep peoples' interest. Also simpler conditions to meet. Maybe no points/ranks/licences at all to revive the spirit of racing. I would supply Airio PROS and could take care of the config. Certainly we can find an unused server, there are so many. All ideas would be welcome.
So, what say you? Will team leaders and team members, so far basically locked to their own servers, often slowly disappearing, be interested in this endeavor? I do realize we may find many obstacles, but I also know many of you are looking for something else than offered by today's LFS. If you still think it is possible, please come forward and share your opinions. Say what you think would be good. Consider also what failed in the past.
Well, this is just an idea, initial proposal (based on what I'd personally love to see), trying to find a compromise between hardcore racing, that is really not very popular, and too open and complicated environments, unacceptable to others. As said, constructive comments are most welcome, especially from experienced server admins that know what works and what does not. Thanks for reading!
If you mean the new version announced and available, it is not ready yet. It now goes through testing, and there is still at least one bug unresolved, so I'll have to work on that.
Well, true, no need to make a big affair out of this. I have my views concerning LFS development during these lean years and I politely communicated them to Sam. I was (and still am) hoping he can accept some of my reasons and act accordingly.
I do care about LFS and Airio and some recent tendencies completely destroy the original purpose of the application, which was not racing for points/ranks (relatively recent addition), but setting some standards, teaching people, and allowing them to move forward to new goals and achievements.
That's why I'm concerned...
PS: If there are still some unresolved Airio problems, could you people please repeat what was wrong, so that I could take a closer look? I saw some PBs not stored. If that happens again, please be sure to make a copy of log.txt file and append it. Usually the cause can be found there quickly. Then it is possible to see how to correct it.
Last edited by EQ Worry, .
These posts concerned manual adding/removing/deleting points. I'm afraid there's no simple command that would allow such things. Statistics manipulation via Airio is limited to completely removing certain types of data - user/track/car, total/champ data, playing/driving points, as supported by !del and !rem admin commands.
To achieve the special manipulation you require you have two options:
1) Stopping Airio, manually editing appropriate STA file, saving the changes, starting Airio again. The STA files structure is described here.
2) If SQLite support is enabled, you may do the changes using SQL commands on the database and then apply changes from SQL to STA files using admin !dbe command.
PS: The !msg command is indeed corrected in 2.5.2.
Last edited by EQ Worry, .
OK, no more comments concerning this matter from me here...
Take the above as a general statement.
I will check that and read all the previous posts!
For now it is a test version, I'll announce it when it is ready. And I really hope admins will be using Airio to improve LFS racing standards and not to spoil and destroy anything good that still remains in this sim, since the developers has deserted it. Lets try to have quality and not quantity, lets fight the bad tendencies, and lets not make them a standard.
Whenever this error appears during Airio startup, it usually means the STA files (statistics) are corrupted. That could happen if you for example kill the Airio service using TC admin panel at the moment it is storing data to disk. Be sure to always type !quit admin command while on the Airio-managed server. After a few seconds you may safely kill the application.
The correction now would be to revert to the latest backed-up STA files. In FULL/PROS versions you'll find midnight backups in the log folder under Airio, so just extract them from there, overwrite the corrupted files, try starting Airio again. In the FREE version... Ehm, I have to say I'm not sure how it's implemented there, if there's any auto-backup.
If you have no STA backup at all, then I'm afraid the only option is to delete the corrupted STA files (all 4 of them) and start to gather new stats...
The one CFG file contains all configurable options. The yes/no items usually specify whether a panel should be shown or not, the X and Y values then set its position on screen (in a 200 x 200 points grid).
Probably the best way would be to decide which of the 15 or so panels you want to use, set yes for them and no for the others. Then you can change their X and Y values so that they are positioned where you want them.
To change position update the CFG file, save it, and in the Aonio console press W which causes Aonio restart. Check panels and positions, adjust settings as necessary, save CFG, press W again...
The connection to server InSim port cannot be established. My guess would be the InSim port is not actually open. Note that you must use the /insim= command at the server, not inside a client connected to server, even with admin rights. You must use the server console for this or enter the /insim= command into server configuration file.
If you still have problem with this, please remove the 3rd line above, because it basically cancels the 1st line there, and there'll be no rotation at all.
I'm afraid the ranking thing (among many others) is not part of the Airio FREE version. You need at least FULL version for that to work, with the basic setting found in the TCD file as RankPointsText and RankPointsValue.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG